The other day, the excellent editor I’m working with on the book I’m compiling, The Black Swan Effect: A response to gender hierarchy in the church, asked me a question on the manuscript.
I’d written “God nowhere in Scripture commands men to rule over women.”
Her comment was, “This is a big statement. Do we know it is true?”
There was only one verse in Scripture that I was aware of that might say this. In Genesis 3, God says to Eve that one of the consequences of the Fall was that her desire would be for her husband, and he would rule over her. I’m persuaded this is descriptive (ie God is telling what will happen) rather than prescriptive (this is the way God wants it to happen. If it is prescriptive, and knowing that God is always consistent with himself, how do you explain Deborah, Esther, Priscilla, Phoebe, let alone a host of other women God has used in positions of leadership down through the pages of history.)
I couldn’t think of any other verses. But was I totally sure without any shadow of a doubt?
So I posted the question on Facebook and had a slew of fascinating responses. I’m very thankful for all of them. Most were very thoughtful and one produced some verses I’d never thought of in this context. Nearly everyone agreed with my statement, and I was very grateful for the person who contacted some theologians on my behalf, who also agreed with me!
Assuming, then, that the statement is true, what difference does it make in our churches?
54 replies on “Does the Bible command that men rule over women?”
I just came across this and thought I would add my two cents… 1 Tim. 3 states , a man should Rule Well his own house, as a prerequisite for church leadership. “Rule” is qualify to be “Well”, not abusive. A house comprises of women and children. In Gen. 1 v28 God gave both men and women dominion (from Strong Lexicon =rule, reign , realm , headship…) over the animals and every creeping thing. In Gen. 2 v 19-20, Adam excercised that dominion, headship, rule over the animals by naming it, and God approved it and it was so. The woman was not involve. In v 23 , Adam [man, male] excercised the same Headship,dominion, Rule over the Woman [Eve] by naming her and God saw it was good, He approved it and so it was and is today. I am not sure if you need exact wording = in their Plural form…? But the idea of a man having Headship, Rule over a woman is written in the Bible. A woman is commanded to Submit to her Own Husband, and not visa versa. No scripture verse is ever written for a man to submit to his own wife. Eph. 5 v 21 is correctly interpreted to mean “humility as a kingdom walk ideal” for both wives , husbands and ALL of us. Humillity will help them do was is specifically asked of them,( wife Submit, and Husband Love v22 and v25). Gen. 3 v16 is a “cause and effect” clause and not a command . The woman is not to desire( =a bad thing) to controll or rule her husband and he will not Rule (= a bad thing) over her.This is the effect of a faulty deceptive desire Eve[women] have brought into. God desires a man to rule his wife and children but he must do so well. His wife is to help him do so and be good at Ruling Well… for the Glory of God.
A husband is never commanded to rule his wife. He is commanded to love, honor, cherish, and nurture her but he is never commanded to rule her.
1 Tim. 3
” He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive”. Notice this is talking about having a well ran house it is not talking about ruling his wife. It does state that his children should be subject or submissive. It does not state anything about his wife…
Their are verses following stating the behavior of the wife but it is not grouped in the requirement to manage house well.
Consider the following:
Mark 10:42-44
42 And Jesus called them to him and said to them, “You know that those who are considered rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them. 43 But it shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,[a] 44 and whoever would be first among you must be slave[b] of all.
We can not throw the rest of the new testament teachings to try to make it say what we want it to.
If a husband was commanded to rule he would then have to make(force) her to obey. This would not be submission(yielding) this would be coercion and it is not the standard that God asked for. Christ never made the Church(his bride) follow him. He encouraged, he persuaded, he wooed he did not force.
When I originally posted this on facebook, a couple of theologians got involved in the discussion. Both were quite clear that there were no verses that say that men should rule over women. I was very encouraged by their response.
I have quoted for you from the KJV of the bible… where a man is to RULE WELL his own house. A wife is part of the house hold. Do you denied that the KJV of the bible say that.? These are not my words.
The context is in the home and in the church, so RULE is qualify to be WELL. What’s wrong with that ? If you say this is not a command, I may agree, but it did say so;– is it a suggestion? is it an instruction?
but not a command!
I disagree that RULE mean he will force her. RULE is qualify to be WELL, this mean it pleases the Lord.If it is forced it does not please God.
Submission is never forced, that I agree with.
Jesus is RULER over all the earth. A man is to emulate Christ and RULE over his small earth call the HOME. Big Jesus RULE over all the earth, little Jesus RULE over his little earth call home. This is biblically correct to me.
Mark 10. is not speaking about home and marriage. Context is very important.
concern, would you be open to reading a book by a theologian on this topic? I’d love to send you one if you would read it. It’s about 500 pages, delving into the Greek, but very readable, and I think it might help you to see these verses differently.
Yes I would read it. Are you open to reading Dr. Jack Cottrell book , “Gender Roles and the Bible , A critique of the Feminist interpretation of the bible”, or how about Dr. Wayne Grudem’s book “Evangelical Feminism and biblical truth” ? I believe copies are available for free reading. You can google them. Be warned ,these require an open objective mind. Thanks for the reply and the suggestion.
If you send me your street address (email it to fdale@house2house.com) I’ll get Philip B. Payne’s “Man and Woman: One in Christ sent to you from Amazon.
I’ll check out the books you recommend. Be warned though, I’ve been studying this topic for decades now, and have probably come across all the arguments they are likely to put forward. It’s not that I don’t have an open mind, just that I’ve been through all the arguments before. I used to believe and live by them too, until I understood that the Scriptures can be interpreted, with equal integrity, to mean something totally different. And the results are very freeing for women.
Felecitydale:> Thank you so much for your reply; our perspective is what we have to deal with. You may have been studying the issue for a long time, that’s commendable but so have many complimentarian scholars who disagree with Payne’s work . And many scholars are equally confident that they view is consistent with the bible and what God wants for His creatures. I have review the book and review many critiques from distinguish peers of Dr. Payne and my own personal opinion and view base on what I have read from the book review and other reviews[ from CBMW] is that Payne is making a trajectory argument to justify his views. When Dr. Cottrell critique scholars who will take unclear verses to overturn very clear verses base on any kind of reasoning is to nullify the word of God. I happen to agree with that and also believe that the egalitarians and the LGBT proponents are guilty of that error.
Do you still think I should read it in it’s entirity? If you do then I will send you my email.
However, since you are not sure if you have come across these books., then you should review thoses recommened so that at lease the next time some one suggest them you can say I have read them, even if you disagree with those professors.
BTW, you are wrong about deborah….
Very interesting topic. We see this Struggle with woman headship playing out today in churches and the homes in which the woman desire is to usurp the God giving role of the man as the spiritual leader, overseer, pastor and husband. The woman strong desire to rule over the man is a curse of God on the woman(Gen 3:16). She left the canopy of the man covering or sheltering and ultimately was deceived by the Devil to disobey God Command.God word in Genesis 3 :16 said the woman would have this strong desire to rule over the man but the man will ultimately rule over her. So the curse is coming to past today in marriages, the Church & home. Paul made it so clear about man leadership roles in the Church as a pastor( teacher ) In 1st Timothy 2 : 11-13 Paul said which is the word of God. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet . for Adam was form first, than Eve; Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.This is so plain and only have one interpretation. His reasons why the woman should submit , He appeal to creation of the man first and the woman deception. This is not to be looked at as chauvinistic words form Paul but woman submission to man was God plan for the woman from creation. In Ephesians 5 : 22 We see the command and not as a suggestion that the woman should submit to her husband , Whereas the husband is command to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. This is God design and although it is being opposed by the feminine movement. it is to be obeyed by the Christians.
You are correct. i do agree.
what is so sad, it that too many Churches are allowing women to disobey the Word of God in this respect, causing the word of God to be Blasphemed, and we wonder why this Culture is so hostile and disrespectful to Christianity? Look no further than this feminist issue in the Churches and the home. [ Titus 2]
If we can accept this kind of rebellion and re-interpretation that conflicts with the Written Word, how dare we go against the LGBT Community and their interpretation of the Word of God and Gay and Lesbian Pastors and Christians? We are doing an injustice to our Lord, while still calling on his name for help in the time of trouble. This is hypocritical….
…for the time is coming ( and now is) when people will not endure sound doctrine, but will be looking for teachers to tell them what they want to hear to make them feel good… [2 Tim 4;3]
But May you stand firm unmoveable , always abounding in the Word of God…[ 1 Corinthian 15:58]
Blessings.!!
Hmm this is not playing out very well then is it? I have seen many marriages where what the woman says goes, and the man just submits. So if the husband will always ‘ultimately rule over her’ then husbands are not doing a very good job holding up their part of the curse are they?
Oh, and if it was God’s will that I (and all women) try to usurp control then doesn’t that mean God WANTS women to try to usurp control over men? I mean if he created that curse, then we are SUPPOSED to try to usurp control. No slave is truly happy being in a subordinate position to their master. God MADE ALL humans, women included, to have a soul which yearns for self expression liberty, and self authority over their lives. Meaning God MADE women to not want to be submissive slaves to men. So women are exactly how God wants us to be! Or else we would have been born like animals, working on instinct only and able to be trained to be obedient like a puppy dog. But we’re not, we are human! With independent minds. Obviously God made us this way!
Doesn’t a more harmonious marriage ensue when BOTH partners treat each other as equals?? Nobody trying to control the other?? And BOTH put each other first?? If you really read into that, the husband is NEVER commanded to RULE over his wife. He is commanded to LOVE SELF SACRIFICALLY. When you love to the point of self sacrifice what do you do? You GIVE UP your own desires, to give the other theirs. That means all these men who think that the Bible dictates that they get their own way ALL THE TIME, are sorely mistaken! To love self sacrificially means to always defer to what their wife wants, while sacrificing their own wants. That is the EXACT SAME THING as submission. Just using different wording.
God gives a command to a man in direct relation to loving her as Christ loved the church,
And made specific reference to him GIVING himself for the church.
THAT is how a man is to rule.
When he told the woman to submit, he told HER to do it, didn’t tell the husband to try and force her to do it.
The man is under the headship of Jesus and Jesus rules over him, but when the man is rebellious, and he often is, including when he doesn’t love his wife like he is commanded to, God does not force him.
We would be in great shape if these men were as interested in being submissive obedient sons to Jesus.
They would be laying their life down for their wife in their actions and what woman would have a problem with that?
Problem is, they want to usurp authority over Jesus, and rule over their wife in a manner that’s pleasing to their domineering flesh.
It does not appeal to the flesh to love someone as yourself and place their needs above your own. The flesh wants to belittle, degrade, distort and twist Gods truth though!
We women need to know the truth of Gods word and have revelation and hold them accountable!
In the image of God made he him, male and female made he them.
Obviously, the image of God was male and female. God blessed them and called THEIR name Adam!
Read your bibles men.
Little Jesus is the one who is a child of God. Not just a man. The only reason God let Eve be deceived and the fall happen was for HIS glory so he could express himself and his attributes as a savior healer, redeemer, judge etc. for you men that gloat
Thank you.
If the woman wasn’t deceived and her husband hadn’t been willingly rebellious, nothing would have been lost, then how could God manifest who he is?
And headship is the greater sacrifice, not submission.
Amen.
People are missing the whole point of Gods beautiful plan, and allowing carnality to blind them. Gods direct command to a man is to LOVE her, nourish cherish, but some men have their own “private interpretation” because they want to see it in a manner that is pleasing to their carnality.
” but some men have their own “private interpretation” .. and women don’t? oh yea , women are the perfect ones, the ones who are ‘victims’ of men, right?
speaking of ‘private interpretation’ Felicity said, quote,” the Scriptures can be interpreted, with equal integrity, to mean something totally different.” Imagine that? something different? different from the Plain Truth of God’s written God. And that’s in a nutshell is heresy and false doctrine. But if makes you, Felicity and most women “feel good”…and that is the foundation of deception.
Amen.
What men seem To conveniently not stress enough, is that a man is not in control. Just as a woman is under the leadership and headship of her husband, a man is under authority and is to lead under authority of Jesus.
The man does not just run things the way he wants to he is to do only what God has commanded him to do.he will answer to God for his rebellion when he doesn’t. His prayers will be hindered if he does not dwell with her as he has been instructed.
God has absolute power and control; a man does not. The Bible tells the woman to submit. The command is to her, not to the husband to see to it that she submit. It’s up to her to obey God by submitting.
The man is to submit and obey God and LOVE her in a sacrificial way that she will respond to.
I hate how things get twisted and distorted. When Jesus died on the cross he didn’t wait to die to see if we would obey first, he took leadership, He came to serve. The husband is to be a TYPE of Christ and women are a type of church, and member of Gods bride if she is saved. My point is, to call a man little Jesus, seems to imply only a man is to emulate Jesus and all his children are to emulate Him; yet a man is called to the greater role of sacrifice in marriage, which is to be a type of Christ to his wife.
Praise The Lord!!
“..LOVE her in a sacrificial way that she will respond to.” > this sounds like control. The bible first say to her to “submit to her own husband in everything” as unto the Lord. Your statement sounds like good pop-psychology. But the instruction is to do it “As unto her Lord.”…her husband is not perfect….
Loving her “sacrificially” presupposes that she is “submissive”….for if she is to decide what to respond to, then she is NOT obeying the instruction. Ephesian 5 :22-24 comes before v 25..
Yes ! I agree with you that Jesus “didn’t wait to see if we will obey first , then die”…and that a husband is also to do the same..
But you are missing the wife’s role in Jesus. Jesus first “submitted ” to the will of the Father , even when the task was hard to bear. His submission led him to die .
The wife’s submission should also lead her to “die”, first to self or else submitting to the husband will be impossible.
“My point is, to call a man little Jesus, seems to imply only a man is to emulate Jesus and all his children are to emulate Him;” > Yes ! it “seems” to imply that , but the context is important.
A wife is to be a “little Jesus” as well, but in her “submission” to her own husband , even as Christ submitted to His father.
1 Peter 3:1-6 , places the responsibility on the wife to submit to her own husband, even if he is NOT living and Loving right. The reason is given in the text; so that by the submissive behaviour of the wife , the husband can be won for Christ..
Pop-psychologist would say , the wife has a right to leave him if he is not loving her right and sacrificially.
Peter would say, you are Sarah’s daughter , learn to trust God, even as Sarah did and God solved her problems.
Blessings!!
You’re leaving out a significant and growing group of women – those that are single. I have been softly pressured to get married by leaders in churches so I could conform to the verses mentioned here, even though I have committed to be single.
If you are committed , that’s ok. But your singleness is to be a Ministry, and a Calling for the Work of God.
If you are burden with and for the intimacy of the opposite, then you may want to review, if you are really Called to be Singled; Or are you simply rebelling against the Verses in the Bible, that you don’t like.
Let us not forget, those verses is God’s words. So conforming to those verses Pleases God. [ whatever they are]
I agree there is a growing group of Singles [ not just women] and there is also a growing group of shacking up couples in the churches.
This is indicative of the larger Culture, and sadly many christians are conforming to the Culture instead of God’s word.
I believe, it is God’s will and plan for His people to get Marry , bear children, and raised a godly seed for the glory of God.
Unless He gave a Ministry of Singleness for His Purpose. In which event, He will supply the aloneness need, usually found within the Church.
Bless you, Concern, for caring so much about this topic. In Matt 5:32, Jesus said – “But I say unto you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.” It’s not really a ministry. It’s just being obedient to God.
In I Corinthians 7:27-40. Paul says a lot about the difference between single people and married people. Vs. 34 says: “There is a difference also between a wife and a virgin (Greek word parthenos, meaning virgin or a marriageable maiden). The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.” Since there is a difference, I think we should acknowledge that difference, respect people and their choices, and not seek to malign their reputations – not that this is what you are doing. Please, I wouldn’t want to be presumptuous or be misunderstood. But I know how people have treated me and judged me when I was simply trying to be obedient to God by not remarrying after my husband tried to kill me.
Verses 37 and 38 of the same chapter say: “Nevertheless he that standeth steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.” I believe that these verses are aimed at a daughter’s father or closest male relative. In Jesus’ time, marriages were usually arranged by the father or closest male relative. It’s not like today in America where two people fall in love and get married, with or without the approval of their parents. In these verses Paul shows that being married is good, but being unmarried is better. I agree that marriage and family are laudable institutions. But marriages and families can be corrupted by evil such as spousal abuse, child abuse, pedophilia, which can make the family unit an absolute nightmare for a small child. Most importantly, God is love. He didn’t create love, He IS love. He wants the very best for us. He wants us to choose on our own to follow him and be obedient to him. Submission – be it to God, to a husband, to a wife, to an employer – is a most precious gift. It should not be extracted, coerced, or demanded. I don’t think it’s fair for me to judge someone because I don’t think they are being submissive or obedient. I don’t know what’s in their heart. And most importantly, I don’t know what they will do tomorrow, next year, or a decade from now. We are all growing, learning, and changing to be more like Jesus.
Sister ,, thanks for the response and the knowledge of your personal experience.
At the time i was not aware , of your experience nor of your gender. However, it is not relevant, to the Gospel of truth found in the Scriptures.
I do believe, that the creator gave different but equally important instructions to His Sons and daughters but our good.
I realized , you are new to ‘disqus’ and have responded only on this site so far.
I would like to encourage you to expand your horizon and visit other sites as well. This author does post articles on other sites ( Charisma magazine) is one.
A diverse wealth of information is on those sites.
quote,’But marriages and families can be corrupted by evil such as spousal abuse, child abuse, pedophilia, which can make the family unit an absolute nightmare for a small child.'” this is true, but can I ask you to consider that individuals are also evil and that ,”spousal abuse ( including abuse by the wife) and pedophillia are not the only sin.
Marriage and Family is God’s idea, and He has given instructions as to how we are to function in these institutions.
We get into trouble when we ( man and wife and children) does not follow and conform to his ways, which are Perfect.
I wish you well , and hope that you do see your current status as a calling, so that whatever you do, He gets the glory.
Blessings!.
I pray for you for your release, God don’t want us to stay in abusive Marriages. You can;t serve two masters, thank God you are out and alive seek God and ask him for directions.. To God Be The Glory.
What are you talking about? You pray for my release? from what may I ask?
i understand you, Paul said it’s better to marry than to burn, so if you can manage without marriage fine. Don’t be pressured God knows your heart. i know someone in that same situation, where are the good men. Many of them are in prison or on drugs, not many good men out there, i have been married happily for 43 years and going strong only through the grace of God. keep the faith, God bless.
Marie sorry but you need some more learning, The Bible is very clear about this subject.
I would only add to “expand” the the concept of “leading Well” that the Husband/Father leads his Wife and children with all Wisdom, Honor, Respect and Love. Gaitha and I work well in ministry through complimentary giftings as Iron does sharpen Iron; in many ways like we have witnessed with Tony and Felicity. Gaitha loves and respects my “lead” as I love, respect and honor her abilities and faith walk to encourage mine. We are not perfect, but God has blest us with 20 wonderful years of Faith Ministry Journey so far…and the Adventure continues!
I would only add to “expand” the the concept of “leading Well” that the Husband/Father leads his Wife and children with all Wisdom, Honor, Respect and Love. Gaitha and I work well in ministry through complimentary giftings as Iron does sharpen Iron; in many ways like we have witnessed with Tony and Felicity. Gaitha loves and respects my “lead” as I love, respect and honor her abilities and faith walk to encourage mine. We are not perfect, but God has blest us with 20 wonderful years of Faith Ministry Journey so far…and the Adventure continues!
Galatians 3:28 ‘There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus’.
There may be no better Bible verse in all the Bible on equality than this one because it includes gender, social position, and nationality. It is never about race but simply about grace and we are all one…and seen as equal in God’s sight.
Romans 2:11 ‘For God shows no partiality’.
Ephesians 5:22. you all clearly know nothing about Israel/ Christian society.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one!
Did you happen to read Ephesians 5:21? “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ”.
Actually “Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God”. Either way the husband and wife are one. The husband is commanded as head and to Love as CHRIST; while the wife is commanded in subjection and to submit into such great gift; many times.
Is the blaspheme of the word in Titus 2 the result of failing to teach; or the failure of those not taught? The rebuke in the last verse is for both. I do not see the teaching or the results of those taught; from many. I do not see the commanded reverence to the husband within Ephesians 5 in any of this either.
CHRIST stated not one tittle or jot within law changed (Matthew 5). Numbers 30 states a father can void any vow and a husband can void or establish any vow or binding oath to afflict the soul. Did GRACE change this or only make it a sin to even think about changing it?
Did we wish to build up the strong body of the CHURCH and family; or tear it down? I do not see fields of pastors or teaching others how to raise fields of pastors in any of this (or at all now). Would Deborah, Esther, Priscilla or Phoebe approve of any of this; or is their servitude open to self assumed judgement and ownership; even to their voice?
Maybe we just ate the apple, failed the law and now HIS ultimate sacrifice is still not enough.
What is this apple everyone keeps speaking about?
The original sin. Genesis 3 describes the event and the results.
We can do anything we want and listen to childish viewpoints all we want. We do need to remember there is only good and bad. We either serve HIM or we do not, and luke warm does not count. That is our freedom in choice that HE has Lovingly given us and HIS promise in Blessings, now and forever.
In Genesis 18:19, HE knew Abraham would command his household and worthy of those Blessings on him and his household. In Numbers 30 it was written as part of the Law, which CHRIST stated not one tittle or jot has changed. Reiterated in Psalms 45, the marriage song and Proverbs 31 by King Lemuel’s mother, . Titus 2 reiterates these same teachings, thousands of years later. GOD does not change, that is the best part of HIS Love.
The world is alluring and causes contagious, but HIS Hands are safe and HIS Blessings are great. HE has always made a way for us, but it our choice to take that path.
People like you are very dangerous and obviously going off self opinion. ..they are at least 30 versus that clearly state that a man should rule his wife and there is no way possible that you posted your question on Facebook and people who have read the bible said otherwise. Everybody replying to this blog disagrees with it , literally everyone. Gen 3:16 and the whole book of Timothy clearly states man is to rule his wife his wife must serve and obey
Man ruling over his wife was part of the curse put on mankind by Satan.
It was not God’s original intent for their relationship.
There are about 1 billion Christians and 6 billion unbelievers on earth.
Does that mean the Christians are wrong because they are the minority?
The truth usually comes from the minority.
Ummm no no. Satan did not put the curse on mankind. God did. That is very clear. If Satan had the power to put curses on mankind then there would be no need for trickery.
God told them the curses that were the result of their actions.
He said, “Cursed is the ground because of what you’ve done”
Not “I’ve cursed the ground because of what you’ve done”
You must study the original Hebrew language as some translations get this wrong.
Satan can not directly curse mankind but he can through deception and temptation to sin, which can result in bringing down a curse.
The truth comes from the truth in God’s Word. The curse on woman was the pain of child bearing and the desire for her husband’s headship. Almost every pagan religion holds to the worship of the goddess. According to pagan sources, it is known as the “Sacred feminine”: Pagan religions recognize “the female divine principle”, identified as “the Goddess”
You do not have the Spirit of God nor do you endure sound doctrine, and twist the scriptures to your own destruction.
I am a born again child of the living God, so yes, I do have the Spirit of God.
And sound doctrine is grace and peace not rules and regulations that place more importance on one person over another.
The Pagans believe all kinds of erroneous things but not rightly dividing the Word of God is what twists scriptures.
Fulfilling the Old Covenant and establishing the New Covenant is what Jesus came to accomplish.
The curse was a result of sin, not something God put on His creation. He loves us and having women treated as less than men is not love.
Translation errors are common in today’s denominational theology. The truth is Jesus and He treated women as they were meant to be treated not like the legalistic, religious Pharisees that Jesus constantly rebuked for their errors and selfishness.
The spirit of those Pharisees is alive and well in today’s legalistic, religious ‘Christianity’.
Grace and peace is found in true faith in the person of Jesus Christ, who said “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.” and “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments”. You cannot separate grace from faith, which is why scripture says “by grace you have been saved, through faith”; neither can you separate faith from obedience which is why scripture says “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance”, which God credited to him as righteousness.
Interestingly Paul received his entire ministry and teaching directly from Jesus, as he says to the Galatians, “I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ”. What he taught regarding women within the church, and inside the home, was as much as a command from Jesus as the rest of the commands he was given to command male elders to be the husband of one wife, to be servant and long-suffering with all godliness raising his house well, without unruliness. Beyond the human level of understanding is the spiritual level which the Spirit of Christ, through Paul, was communicating regarding the church; Christ is a representative of the man in the marriage, and the church is representative of the woman, His bride. Hence why God uses Hosea and his prostitute, adulteress wife homer to express the love and commitment of our faithful Lord and Saviour to an unfaithful whore of a bride, meaning us, His people. The picture we see is that, through love, patience, kindness, correction and long-suffering, Christ would eventually bring His bride (us) into submission and loving obedience. Not coercion, but the love with which He laid down His life as a sin offering for us. So the example has been set for Christian’s in marriage but also in our relationships as brothers and sisters.
I am now convicted and conscious with my harsh miscommunication with you in my previous message, so I apologise and seek forgiveness. But I hope you can see the error in the doctrine you are trying to hold to, and the implications of this error.
The Pharisees were actually marked by their disobedience to God’s law, focusing on outward appearances and sacrifice whiles neglecting the weightier matters such as truth, justice and mercy. Jesus always contended and corrected their error when He spoke with them. The same way we are to lovingly correct one another if any stray from the truth.
You are right in that men and women are equal in regards to salvation, and value in God’s sight. As for roles, there is as much a hierarchy between men and women as there is in the relationship between God The Father and God The Son. All 3 persons of God are co-equal in nature but fulfill a different role within the God-head, with a clear and distinct submission from Son to The Father, and The Spirit to the Son. Yet all 3 agree.
The legalism employed by the Pharisees consisted largely of man-made ordinances and extra burdens which were unrelated to God’s law. They were hypocrites. To compare the Pharisees with the teachings given to the apostles regarding female submission is both a logical fallacy and is rebellion to God’s Word. God is the Word, and He is also a God of order and not confusion. He decided His law and commanded these things from before the foundations of the world, so that through these we may see the riches and glory of His Wisdom and Love, and know the fullness of His nature and grace with all spiritual understanding.
Let us humbly bow before Him and submit to the authority of His Word on this. There have definitely been abuses in church history regarding the treatment of women, as well as over-emphasis in female submission which neglects male servitude and the humbling duties of Christ-like headship…but don’t allow experiences, culture or history to shape scripture but rather allow scripture to shape all those things.
I implore you as a sister and pray that you receive this in peace, love and mercy.
Yes. Jesus is Grace but we don’t have to do anything to receive that grace otherwise it wouldn’t be grace.
Jesus is the one who qualifies us for every single blessing because He has kept all of God’s commandments. When He died for us on the cross, He not only fulfilled all of God’s commandments, He also redeemed us from the curse of the law. (Galatians 3:13)
The New Covenant commandment is to love God with all your heart and to love others as yourself. That is being obedient to God, otherwise you are depending on your own efforts.
Even in the most impoverished faith there is an abundance of grace.
Romans 5:17
“For if by one man’s offense(Adam) death reigned, much more those who receive abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by One, Jesus Christ.”
Abraham was righteous but so was Lot. Two very different men and very different lives. Lot was spared from Sodom because he was one of the few righteous people left there yet he didn’t honor God as he should have with his life.
We are the righteousness of God through Jesus. There is no other way.
Women are not called to be subject to their husbands. This belief has caused women more sorrow, abuse and oppression than any other tradition of man.
“Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:13
Men are fallible human beings and God would not place women in such a vulnerable position knowing that it would cause them harm.”
They are just as vital to the church and are equal children of God with men and have been held back from what God has called them to do because of the mistranslation of His Word.
On the day of Pentecost God did not keep the women silent. They all spoke in tongues, in public.
Both men and women could use their God-given spiritual gifts. Women were praying and prophesying during church services.
(1 Corinthians 11:5)
There are many instances of Paul praising women who teach the truth such as Priscilla.
Acts 18:2,18,26
1 Corinthians 16:19
Romans 16:3
Phoebe, a ‘diakonon’ servant/minister in Romans 16:1
Junia in Romans 16:7 ‘outstanding among the apostles’
Nympha, and ‘her house church’– the only leader mentioned by name in Laodicea Colossians 4:15.
Also Euodia and Syntyche who “contended at my (Paul’s) side in the cause of the gospel” verbally wrestling with unbelievers
Philippines 4:1-3
Paul hails many other women as co-workers in Christ Jesus. If Paul had issued a blanket edict against all women teaching everywhere Paul would have reprimanded these women instead of praising them
One should allow the Word of God in its full context to be the final word, not tradition.
The ‘law’ to which Paul refers is the oral law of the rabbis, which did insist that women remain silent in public. And he was not condoning their traditions he was opposing them.
Ha ha ha you funny where you here that from? Stick to the Bible wow, before women ate of the tree she want to be more she wanted more then what Adam had. She want power and Satan knew this, that’s how he was able to trick her to eat of the forbidden tree, the snake told her that she would be like God’s. GOD made women for man not man for women and he gave ATHORITY over his wife and God has ATHORITY over man Satan don’t run nothing everything he do he has to ask God for permission God is in control of everything before life and death Satan don’t curse or run nothing but his mouth
Just because you ‘stick to the Bible’ doesn’t mean you’re interpreting it correctly.
Adam and Eve gave Satan authority over them when they committed treason against God. Thus, the curses.
I Corinthians 11:12 “Although the first woman came from man, every other man was born from a woman, and everything comes from God.”
And take the verse in Timothy where Paul, seemingly, tells women to be silent in church.
If you go back you will read him telling men to “lift holy hands and to live peacefully”, and if you study the original meaning you would know that the same Greek word used for ‘peacefully’ here is the exact same word that is translated ‘silent’ for the women in church.
Early translators had presuppositions about women in the church and used the word ‘silent’ instead of ‘peaceful’.
Paul chastises the Jewish men of his day for excluding women from learning, thus leaving them vulnerable to deception. Just as Adam was responsible for failing to protect Eve from deception, so too the men of Paul’s day would be held responsible if they hindered women from studying and growing in their faith.
Paul’s words refute the matriarchal authoritarianism practiced by pagan cults in that day.
Ephesus, where Timothy ministered, was the home of a cult dedicated to the pagan goddess Artemis.
Worship of Artemis was conducted under the authority of an entirely female priesthood that exercised authoritarian dominion over male worshipers.
So Paul emphasized that women should not presume undue authority over men. Paul neither elevates women over men nor men over women, but is rather concerned that men and women be granted equal opportunity to learn and grow in submission to one another and to God.
The Bible clearly states that Adam brought sin into the world.
Romans 5:12 “Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.”
We are under the New Covenant now and Paul was continually correcting the church for errors in trying to mix the old Jewish laws and culture of the day with the Grace that Jesus died to give us.
Women under subjection to men was man’s idea, not God’s.
Jesus has never forced himself on anyone it’s free will same for your wife, that’s what submission is free will to choose, not forced on anyone, my husband agrees with this totally, love can’t be forced
10 Bible reasons why a wife must submit to her husband regardless of culture:
Creation order: Man was created first, woman second. “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. ” 1 Timothy 2:13
Creation origin: Man and all creation was created by God directly out of dust, whereas woman was created through the man’s rib. “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. ” Genesis 2:7 Woman is the only creature not made from dust. Woman derives her origin from Man. “The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. ” Genesis 2:22 “For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man” 1 Corinthians 11:8
Creation purpose: Woman created for man: “for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.” 1 Corinthians 11:9
Man named woman: Adam named the animals and was to rule over them. “Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. ” Genesis 2:19 “rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28 When Eve was brought to Adam, he named her, showing he was to rule over woman as well. “The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh;She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”” Genesis 2:23
Delegation principle: God commanded directly to Adam alone. The prohibition to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was made directly by God to Adam. Adam, in turn relayed what God said to Eve. Eve had not yet been created when God told Adam about the forbidden tree. Eve never actually heard God say this direct, but had to trust Adam’s word on the matter. “The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.” Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”” Genesis 2:16-18
Woman sinned first: The devil tempted Eve and she, not the man, was first deceived. Because of this, man put Eve under the headship of Adam. “And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. ” 1 Timothy 2:14; “Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”” Genesis 3:1
God rebuked Adam first after they ate the forbidden fruit: Although Eve was the logical person for God to rebuke first, God went to Adam, showing that God considered Adam the “head of the family” for both. “Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” ” Genesis 3:9
Man is the glory of God, woman is the glory of man: “For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.” 1 Corinthians 11:7
Paul pointed Christians to the Mosaic Law that was 1500 earlier and a different culture: 1 Cor.14:34
Peter pointed Christians to Sarah, 2000 years earlier and a very different culture: 1 Pet. 3:5-6.
When sin entered the human race, one of the consequences was that men and women became separated from God. And that basic broken relationship distorted the Divine order in many ways, one of which was that men began to rule over women.
This sinful state has been very evident in the way women have been treated throughout human history by various religions but the words and actions of Jesus underscored His elevated opinion of women.
Women are treated with respect and honor as co-heirs with Jesus Christ in the Kingdom of God.
1 Peter 3:7
‘Husbands, in the same way, treat your wives with consideration as a delicate vessel, and with honor as fellow heirs of the gracious gift of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered’.
Women may not have fared well in the world’s religions, but they are greatly loved by God who, in the beginning, created them equal to men.
The discrimination that women deal with does not come from the heart of God.
He created them in His own image with a capacity to know Him in a personal relationship.
And when sin destroyed that relationship, God redeemed them through the death of His own Son.
I Corinthians 11:11-12
‘But among the Lord’s people, women are not independent of men, and men are not independent of women. For although the first woman came from man, every other man was born from a woman, and everything comes from God’.
Genesis 1:26 he gave them dominion not Adam ,
10 Biblical reasons why women should not rule over men regardless of culture:
Creation order: Man was created first, woman second. “For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. ” 1 Timothy 2:13
Creation origin: Man and all creation was created by God directly out of dust, whereas woman was created through the man’s rib. “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. ” Genesis 2:7 Woman is the only creature not made from dust. Woman derives her origin from Man. “The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. ” Genesis 2:22 “For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man” 1 Corinthians 11:8
Creation purpose: Woman created for man: “for indeed man was not created for the woman’s sake, but woman for the man’s sake.” 1 Corinthians 11:9
Man named woman: Adam named the animals and was to rule over them. “Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. ” Genesis 2:19 “rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Genesis 1:28 When Eve was brought to Adam, he named her, showing he was to rule over woman as well. “The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”” Genesis 2:23
Delegation principle: God commanded directly to Adam alone. The prohibition to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was made directly by God to Adam. Adam, in turn relayed what God said to Eve. Eve had not yet been created when God told Adam about the forbidden tree. Eve never actually heard God say this direct, but had to trust Adam’s word on the matter. “The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.” Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”” Genesis 2:16-18
Woman sinned first: The devil tempted Eve and she, not the man, was first deceived. Because of this, man put Eve under the headship of Adam. “And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. ” 1 Timothy 2:14; “Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?”” Genesis 3:1
God rebuked Adam first after they ate the forbidden fruit: Although Eve was the logical person for God to rebuke first, God went to Adam, showing that God considered Adam the “head of the family” for both. “Then the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” ” Genesis 3:9
Man is the glory of God, woman is the glory of man: “For a man is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.” 1 Corinthians 11:7
Paul pointed Christians to the Mosaic Law that was 1500 earlier and a different culture: 1 Cor.14:34
Peter pointed Christians to Sarah, 2000 years earlier and a very different culture: 1 Pet. 3:5-6.
Adam and Eve were made in the image of God, the two became one, it doesn’t matter who was made first. God is both male and female and He had to have breathed life into Eve as well because she was created full grown like Adam.
Women derive their origin from God and Adam was the only man not born of a women.
“Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
For although the first woman came from man, every other man was born from a woman, and everything comes from God.”
1 Corinthians 11:11-12
Eve was deceived but Adam understood what he was doing.
He failed Eve and he failed God.
They both are responsible but God placed the blame on Adam for bringing sin and death into the earth.
Like Adam, they [Israel] have broken the covenant— they were unfaithful to me there. (Hosea 6:7)
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man….death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam…. (Romans 5:12, 14)
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Cor 15:22)
All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners”: sin came into the world through one man.
God rebuked Adam first because he was not deceived but deliberately sinned against God and than blamed God for it. Eve was honest and admitted her failing of believing Satan’s lie.
And if your going to say Adam had authority over Eve because he was created first than that would mean that the animals had authority over Adam as they we created before him.
The Mosaic Law is a ministry of death and we are not under the Law but under Grace.
“The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious…how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?”
(2 Corinthians 3:6-8)
We are also redeemed from the curse through Jesus Christ.
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree”
Galatians 3:13
It’s amazing how people take one simple verse and work it over until any semblance of the original truth is gone. Many ‘sacred’ traditions are simply falsehoods that have been around so long they have been accepted as truth.
In 1 Timothy 2:14 Paul said that Eve was deceived but Adam was not because he knew what he was doing.
‘Through one MAN sin entered the world’ (Romans 5:12)
‘By the transgression of ONE the many died’ (Romans 5:15)
‘By the transgression of ONE death regained through the ONE’ (Romans 5:17)
More than 8 times Paul said ‘one person’ caused the Fall and twice named that person as Adam. That’s why Christ is called the Last Adam and not the last Eve, clearly implicating the first man as the cause of sin and death.
Although, both man and woman sinned, God held the man responsible, not because he had primal right of authority over the woman, but because he deliberately sinned against God.
Neither Eve or Satan tempted Adam or talked him into disobeying God’s command; he acted solely on his own initiative. That’s why sin entered the world through man and not woman.
Eve was forthright and honest; she didn’t blame God or Adam but Adam actually blamed God for giving him the woman.
Eve’s sin was a result of deception. Adam’s was deliberate rebellion. He was with Eve when the snake talked to her.
Both sinned but Adam refused to accept the responsibility for his actions so he was judged as the one bringing sin into the world.
And why are you not quoting verse 8 of 1st Timothy 2 and demanding that “Christian MEN always, in every place, pray and lift holy hands?” or 1 Corinthians 14:5 “I wish that you all spoke in tongues”? Why such strong focus on the women?
And if Adam’s priority gave man preeminence over women, than woman’s priority over man should come through childbirth, where every other man has his origin.
1 Corinthians 11:12
Or if Adam being created first gave him authority over Eve then with that reasoning the animals should have had authority over Adam.
Much of Paul’s letters were written in response to problems in the church and in his style of writing he repeats the concern and then offers the answer. Many doctrines have been established on the problem not the solution. And cultural consideration must be adhered to.
Oppression of women was common place in Judaism and Paul was always dealing with that and trying to bring the women up to the standard that God wanted them as they were unlearned in the scriptures and just starting to enjoy their new found freedom in Christ. The converted Jews wanted to take their Oral Law, passed down through the generations, and mix it with Jesus’ teachings.
The belief that men are somehow superior to women is in direct opposition to God’s ideal before the Fall. It has caused untold sorrow and abuse towards women for century’s. How is that God’s plan? Do you really think that most men are capable of doing what’s right with that kind of authority over women? It’s been proven over and over that they are not.
The Gospel has been supressed because women were told they can’t minister. That they are somehow inferior.
The first people to tell the Good New of Jesus’ resurrection were women and many women ministred with Paul. Why did he allow that?
Taking verses out of context and without inclusion of other scriptures is dangerous and has inhibited the Church from the growth it should have if women were treated with the respect Jesus treated them with.
Genesis 3:16 KJV
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
The curse (consequence of our behavior) left us with a power struggle. Those verses are describing what distortion would be brought into our relationships with one another, with animals and with the earth, not a prescription. We were supposed to partner together to ‘subdue’ (take care of) the earth but our flesh has led us to destruction on the earth. Woman’s inclination would be to try to control man and man’s would be to rule and dominate woman. The argument consistently goes to ‘what women can do and what they can’t’. Why does it rarely include the instructions for men? I believe the discussion
Should involve God’s intention for both because the calling is high for BOTH men and women. I have been married for 31 years and my husband is a strong man and I am no slouch, but he has never once commanded me to ‘submit’ or appeal to me on an authoritative basis. And why not? because he sees me as an equal partner worthy of respect and so any yielding on my part is easy. He is committed to loving me the way Paul commands him to in Ephesians 5. That’s him using his Genesis 1-2 ‘primo-geniture’ to be like Christ not as a tool/weapon to dominate.
I hope and pray we can all seek to be a light and representation of what it means to be image bearers in partnership in this dark world- as Priscilla and Aquila and so many others were; finding ways to spread the good news, the good news for men and for women, whether married or single.